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[Music]

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you know uh we did this story largely

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based on

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information that you had amassed and

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collected on nick pope

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and uh i wanted to get your sense

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you know all over the the united states

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media they always say nick pope ran a

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british ufo program

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and i believe they do that falsely based

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on his own claims and and

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we've shared a lot of the stuff that

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you've collected over the years that

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seems to indicate he just answered the

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phone he didn't investigate anything

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i mean what is your take on that and

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well so what what is the perception in

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england when he's called the british ufo

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expert in the united states

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what do people in england say do they

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know that this is all yeah

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i mean nick has these followers you know

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and

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most people in the know here no it's

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it's not true

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but you don't have to believe me or you

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you can just go to the ministry defense

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and they will tell you

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you can check all their files have been

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released to the public into our national

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archives and that's where i got the

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documents from

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you know i haven't pulled these out from

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uh you know

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pulled a rabbit out of a hat with demo d

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documents they're all there anybody can

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see them they're not not top secret

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and um

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i'm one of the guys that used to bug

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nick pope when he was actually at the

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mod

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yeah that's interesting is that some of

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those documents you're aware as is him

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and his handwriting yeah even though his

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name is redacted because he was working

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there at the time and that was you

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asking the questions

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this generated those documents yeah the

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thing about nick he was different to his

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predecessors and those that came after

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he was just much more helpful

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it didn't have to be this wasn't mod

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policy

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it was just him as a personality

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and don't you think that maybe you know

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look he was just interested in ufos

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before he worked there so once he's in a

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position where people are calling and

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talking about ufos

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he feels like he's investigating but i

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think the word investigating to me

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doesn't mean you answer the phone and

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then you forward it to what is that

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section there was a circle the section

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there is another department or there was

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it's not there now and it's called di55

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defense intelligence 55.

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they dealt with a lot of things

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but basically when

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when ufo reports went in to nick's

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department which is called the

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secretariat

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air staff yeah and philip was nice

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enough to even send me the definition of

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it's admin it's administration

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administrator administer yeah and i had

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mentioned that i worked at a one

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corporate place where like four or five

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of us guys that were working there had

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one admin assistant

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you know and and and they did things

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like go get me a file answer the phone

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well what nick would do when somebody

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when they got a report in he would copy

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in the various departments the main one

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being di55

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who actually investigated the stuff on

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occasion on occasions

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you're talking a handful of times per

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year but all they were looking at steve

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was to see if these reports were enemy

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aircraft

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yeah the russians if there's a defense

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problem they're interested if it's not

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they're not interested and they've

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openly said that from day one i mean

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that was mod policy across the board

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on on occasion

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they would look into certain reports and

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they would conduct an investigation but

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they didn't tell nick pope the results

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because he was too far down that the

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ladder

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you're on a need-to-know basis and you

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don't need to know well these guys were

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well above him i'll give you an example

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there is a ministry defense

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um alcoholic a report

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a study

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and it's called

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condy

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project condom

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and it was done by a chap called dr

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harrow

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now when you read the condyle report you

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won't find his name on it there's no

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author's name on it

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and it basically looked at what they

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were calling then the uaps

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and it was published internally it was

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classified to begin with

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i think in the year 2000 because it was

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classified

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nick pope's department didn't get a copy

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they were not on the circulation list

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so he was so far down in the chain he

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didn't even get classified internal

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documents about ufos now project condyne

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is a lengthy report

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and dr ron haddow was a lifelong

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mod guy i think he started off as a

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pilot in the 50s you know

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and

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his conclusion was that these were

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unknown balls of plasma that may affect

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uh you know aircraft etc etc but but

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that doesn't matter the fact was pope's

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department wasn't even copied in it was

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dr david clarke

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who found out about the condom report

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and got it released under the freedom of

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information act and see to me that is

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very that is that right now what you're

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talking about is very telling because

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this man nick pope claims that he ran

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the british ufo program if he did he

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would be given access to these reports

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in these internal documents as the head

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of a ufo program but everything that

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i've looked at seems to indicate there

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was people that that were in charge of

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investigating but you're right only when

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they felt it may be related to a defense

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issue yes and also nick pope on the

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record in a previous bio on on his

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website claimed that he investigated

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alien uh abductions crop circles and

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cattle mutilations for the british

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government but

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we have from you we have from the

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british ministry of defense a letter

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confirming that they have never

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investigated alien abductions crop

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circles or cattle mutilations yeah yeah

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i mean right there he's lying and and

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he's and they also

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you also have a look of some

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correspondence by nick pope himself

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saying you know there are no crop circle

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reports in the mod files

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and then there's another document

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written by by nick himself

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saying that the kind of reports that the

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the chapel written to him are talking

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about i.e close encounters

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they don't tend to receive

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and he actually advises the the

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correspondent

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to contact

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some civilian ufo groups and he lists

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them yeah which doesn't make sense

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because if he was

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he see he it's all about perceptions he

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he

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investigated crop circles and alien

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abductions and it's very clear that they

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didn't investigate that's not a defense

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issue they had no interest or

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in investigating them no but and it's

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and it's unfortunate but like we have a

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very similar parallel here in the united

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states because you've got nick pope

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saying i ran a british the british ufo

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program i was the head of it and then we

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find out no you didn't and that didn't

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exist you were a secretary and in the

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united states we've got elizondo saying

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that he ran a 22 million dollar

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ufo program that we now know never

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existed and was not funded yeah but i

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always say look you don't have to

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believe me the documents that i'm

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talking about i've shared some with you

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steve yeah they're all they're all

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available in the mod files

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you know and and i don't know if they

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are now but during the pandemic

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all these files you could download them

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free of charge yeah and i can tell you

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because i did have i had pieces of that

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puzzle but uh philip mantle had a

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collection he has an enti he had a whole

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collection and i put up most of them in

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a google drive link

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after this broadcast ends i'll put the

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google drive link to all the evidence

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and proof that nick pope never ran a ufo

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program

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will be right there in black and white

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for you so you vote for everybody i'm

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coming to me saying well you're just

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jealous of nick pope i've heard that

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i've heard that and i can see how people

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could assume that because you're both

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british you're you're

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i said look i have my own little niche

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whatever you want to call it i am quite

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happy with where i am

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you know i love doing what i didn't lie

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to people about your no jobs to get

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there i i said i left school with no

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qualifications

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i have none i mean zilch that you know

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um

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you know i worked in a factory

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and i'm i'm proud of that you know i was

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a factory worker i was assuming my

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family's all blue collar union i was i

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was a trade union representative i was

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well trained by the trade union and then

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i took ill seriously ill

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and uh i had to after a couple of years

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i could find a you know an office job

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like i said i ended up working for the

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halifax bank

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and i'm very grateful you know it it saw

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my daughter through university and paid

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the bills ten years after i had the

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heart attack i went down with heart

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failure that nearly flaming killed me no

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bad other heart problem so i've been in

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and out of hospital so there is no way

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i could run around like nick pope does

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uh you know so i'm not jealous

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i i it's nothing personal nix nick spoke

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at one of the conferences i helped

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organize he stayed in my house as a

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guest

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one of the things that strikes me is

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that obviously this man has an intense

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passion and interest for these subjects

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i just think where he went wrong is

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overstating

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and and embellishing and fabricating

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a story for his background that would

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then get him more bookings more fame

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more money and that's a problem for me

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you know it's a real problem for me yeah

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yeah i think it's so he if he had if he

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hadn't said any of that stuff

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uh and faked stuff in his background or

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claimed that he investigated things he

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clearly never investigated for the

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british government if he had just said

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like like you philip i'm just a citizen

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of the uk i'm very interested in these

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subjects i've been researching them for

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20 years or whatever

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i i would be much more agreeable to that

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i think what what nick's job actually

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did bearing in mind

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some guy wrote to the media city fans

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said how can i apply for the job and

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they said well it's internal

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and they sent him he said well what does

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it entail so they sent him a list of

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what it entails and it's all admin tasks

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that's all it is

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you know

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all the things that nick never talks

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about and what people don't realize too

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is that a lot of his job was was that

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administrative and secretarial like a

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british a british airplane is let's say

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a british airplane is going to fly to

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poland they need a place to land they

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need clearance to land there's paperwork

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that needs to be done that's what he did

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it's the civil service you know

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politicians come and go but civil you

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can have a job in the civil service

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for all your life and he did indeed

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spend 21 years in it you know and he

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took early retirement and he is a nice

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guy he you know he's he's very affable

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i'm laughable

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but if you're on the wrong side of him

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you know that's that's different

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um

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based on the sock puppet accounts that

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are currently attacking me on twitter i

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i think i got on his wrong side and it's

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always interesting to me i don't know if

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you know this philip but every time at

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least here on this show when we show

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people the truth about one of these

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characters in conspiracy land suddenly a

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brand new nameless faceless twitter

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account comes comes at me on twitter to

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defend their honor and tell me how wrong

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i am it's never a real person that

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defends them once they're revealed to be

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the frauds or the liars that i believe

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they are it's always a fake brand new

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twitter account yeah yeah i mean you

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know and that's just the way it is i

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said look you don't have to believe me

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i'll tell you documents yeah i said you

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asked for them steve and i sent you them

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i think they were there the same day or

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the next day and yeah yeah absolutely

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make of them what you will

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and um

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but that's that's it like i said don't

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believe me

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you know go to the minute and this

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people will say well you can't believe

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the ministry of defense yeah because the

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men in black covered up his well

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hang on a minute here you can't believe

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the ministry of defense but you want to

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believe a former military defense

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employee

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you know come on you know

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um it doesn't quite work that way but

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people don't want to have their

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illusions shattered they think that some

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secret department in the mod has been up

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to all this that and the other

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and if there is we haven't found we

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haven't found it you know we do know

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that di50 i'll tell we found out about

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di55 it goes back a long time steve

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you know we would write letters to the

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minister defense trying to get access to

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this down the other

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more often than not we failed

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but it was my colleague um jenny

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randalls

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who'll notice on a letter that i've got

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from the mld they're distribution list

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you know that's interesting so they

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00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:45,680
screwed up yeah

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and she it wasn't me it was my it was

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written to me but i hadn't noticed it

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jenny noticed it she said di55 she then

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started to look into what did where the

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00:14:00,470 --> 00:13:57,839
hell who's this gi 55

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and then we fight we found out you know

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it took a long time but they're gone now

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that department is is dissolved it may

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have another name

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move somewhere pope's department the

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game was closed in 2009

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so you can't get any set if you write to

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the ministry offense that's forwarded on

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00:14:19,910 --> 00:14:16,959
to some place somewhere else they don't

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00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:19,920
even reply themselves anymore um

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00:14:22,310 --> 00:14:21,279
and and they are genuinely not

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interested

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people people don't believe that they're

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00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:26,800
generally not they're they're open

383
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unless it's a defense issue then they're

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interested they've openly said

385
00:14:35,829 --> 00:14:34,320
but however far back you go that that

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00:14:37,590 --> 00:14:35,839
that's that's it they're looking at this

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00:14:38,550 --> 00:14:37,600
from a defense point of view they'll

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00:14:41,750 --> 00:14:38,560
admit

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00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:41,760
things in the air that they can't

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00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:42,720
explain

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00:14:49,510 --> 00:14:44,720
sure but if it's not a defense issue we